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Development of the evolution game Thrive.
 
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Updated Research Web
Wed May 08, 2013 5:20 pm by NickTheNick
Okay guys, here is my first Devblog to fulfill my responsibility as Strategy Team lead.

Finally I have procured some work to show for my efforts in conceptualizing the Strategy Mode. The Research Web is a pivotal component of post-sapience gameplay, as it is what drives your species forwards from the Awakening stage to their final steps into Ascension. Through a graphing program, I have managed …

[ Full reading ]
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auto research concept prototype microbe evolution tree underwater creature date video Thrive game Gameplay organism wiki biomes planet progress stage editor Devblog cell tech space music
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 Multicellular...

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Slathazer
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PostSubject: Multicellular...   Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:51 pm

How do we make the jump from single cell to multi-cellular? How can it be done without cutscenes/level progression? (sorry if this is already posted somewhere)
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:40 am

Slathazer wrote:
How do we make the jump from single cell to multi-cellular? How can it be done without cutscenes/level progression? (sorry if this is already posted somewhere)

I'm not sure if it has been on these forums. But i think basically the plan is that once enough cells bind together for them to specialize (eg, skin cells, digestive cells) then you will be classed as multicellular and the camera will change to behind your creature.
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Xenopologist
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:24 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
Slathazer wrote:
How do we make the jump from single cell to multi-cellular? How can it be done without cutscenes/level progression? (sorry if this is already posted somewhere)

I'm not sure if it has been on these forums. But i think basically the plan is that once enough cells bind together for them to specialize (eg, skin cells, digestive cells) then you will be classed as multicellular and the camera will change to behind your creature.


Won't the camera jump be a bit confusing and disorienting to the player? It seems quite like a sharp stage division, which we are trying to avoid.
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:45 pm

Xenopologist wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
Slathazer wrote:
How do we make the jump from single cell to multi-cellular? How can it be done without cutscenes/level progression? (sorry if this is already posted somewhere)

I'm not sure if it has been on these forums. But i think basically the plan is that once enough cells bind together for them to specialize (eg, skin cells, digestive cells) then you will be classed as multicellular and the camera will change to behind your creature.


Won't the camera jump be a bit confusing and disorienting to the player? It seems quite like a sharp stage division, which we are trying to avoid.

There is no way to go from a 2d play axis to 3d one without a sharp transition. That's unfortunately the bottom line. This has been a problem for a long, long time and i think it will remain one for equally as long.
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Slathazer
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:26 pm

Also there's the jump between one cell to two cells... that will be a large transition also... once a few hundred cells are created, there would be no need for single-cell manipulation, but a simple "organ blob" brush to form general organ centers. at about how large will it switch to 3d? (a millimeter maybe?
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:44 pm

Slathazer wrote:
Also there's the jump between one cell to two cells... that will be a large transition also... once a few hundred cells are created, there would be no need for single-cell manipulation, but a simple "organ blob" brush to form general organ centers. at about how large will it switch to 3d? (a millimeter maybe?

I'm not so hot on the science stuff, so i don't know how big is big enough.
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Xenopologist
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:50 pm

There are fairly complex organisms on the microscopic scale, if I'm not mistaken. I've got no exact statistics, but "bigger than a hundred cells" is still very small.

Also: will cells in Thrive be locked into a human-cell scale? There are organism concepts out there that involve much larger or smaller cells than we see on Earth, and even here there is a wide cell size range.
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:54 pm

Xenopologist wrote:
There are fairly complex organisms on the microscopic scale, if I'm not mistaken. I've got no exact statistics, but "bigger than a hundred cells" is still very small.

Also: will cells in Thrive be locked into a human-cell scale? There are organism concepts out there that involve much larger or smaller cells than we see on Earth, and even here there is a wide cell size range.

I guess there can be both. Some cells may evolve to be big, others may evolve to be numerous, and others may evolve to bind together into multicellular creatures.
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:11 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
Xenopologist wrote:
There are fairly complex organisms on the microscopic scale, if I'm not mistaken. I've got no exact statistics, but "bigger than a hundred cells" is still very small.

Also: will cells in Thrive be locked into a human-cell scale? There are organism concepts out there that involve much larger or smaller cells than we see on Earth, and even here there is a wide cell size range.

I guess there can be both. Some cells may evolve to be big, others may evolve to be numerous, and others may evolve to bind together into multicellular creatures.

Cell don't evolve to be big. They take in neccicary materials through their membrane. If they grow to large, the internal area grows exponentially and they can't keep a rapid enough exchange.
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:34 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
Xenopologist wrote:
There are fairly complex organisms on the microscopic scale, if I'm not mistaken. I've got no exact statistics, but "bigger than a hundred cells" is still very small.

Also: will cells in Thrive be locked into a human-cell scale? There are organism concepts out there that involve much larger or smaller cells than we see on Earth, and even here there is a wide cell size range.

I guess there can be both. Some cells may evolve to be big, others may evolve to be numerous, and others may evolve to bind together into multicellular creatures.

Cell don't evolve to be big. They take in neccicary materials through their membrane. If they grow to large, the internal area grows exponentially and they can't keep a rapid enough exchange.

Well then why are there big cells? As compared to other cells, i mean. Not big as in elephant big.
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Xenopologist
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:45 pm

There are comparatively large cells, but it's true that cell size is capped by this problem. However, on other planets, alternate biochemistry systems may apply. Are we using only carbon-based biochemistries in this game, or are we entertaining alternatives?
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:56 pm

Xenopologist wrote:
There are comparatively large cells, but it's true that cell size is capped by this problem. However, on other planets, alternate biochemistry systems may apply. Are we using only carbon-based biochemistries in this game, or are we entertaining alternatives?

I think for at least the original release, we need to keep it limited to carbon based.
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Slathazer
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:57 am

US_of_Alaska wrote:
Xenopologist wrote:
There are comparatively large cells, but it's true that cell size is capped by this problem. However, on other planets, alternate biochemistry systems may apply. Are we using only carbon-based biochemistries in this game, or are we entertaining alternatives?

I think for at least the original release, we need to keep it limited to carbon based.


agreed
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MitochondriaBox
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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:07 am

Slathazer wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
Xenopologist wrote:
There are comparatively large cells, but it's true that cell size is capped by this problem. However, on other planets, alternate biochemistry systems may apply. Are we using only carbon-based biochemistries in this game, or are we entertaining alternatives?

I think for at least the original release, we need to keep it limited to carbon based.


agreed


Actually, there are macroscopic cells called xenophyophores. They don't all look the same, and can move through the sea floor to find food. A species of them can grow up to 20 cm!

However, gameplay as them wouldn't really be fun, since the odds of you reaching the multicellular stage with many cells and leaving any survivors is low. You'd be too large for there to be much space for you, not to mention fragile. By the time you constitute enough cells to begin specialization, and evolve lungs or something, you'd be tall as a frikkin' skyscraper, man! And don't ask me about getting to the awakening or society stage, you'd be too tall to pick up a rock and scrape it on another rock to start a fire. Just tear a mountain in two, buddy. Then again, you'd need extreme muscle mass and tallness for that, and, good job, you just evolved it, and now you can't even breathe. Good day to you! I've (never) always wanted to stick my head into space while standing on Earth.

Even if your head was on your chest, the upper part of your body would quickly die in the vacuum of space. I suggest you fall over to survive, but you probably just smashed a tribe of a more successful species that doesn't need to use a mountain peak as a flint.
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TropicalMammoth



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PostSubject: Re: Multicellular...   Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:59 pm

Well, what if there was a universal currency, kinda like the DNA mechanic in spore. We'll call this energy for convenience's sake.

Cellular reproduction is a biologically tiring task, so perhaps we can provide players the option to self-replicate once they gain enough energy that hasn't been expended on other tasks (such as self defense). Not only does this eliminate the possibility of the dreaded grind, but also introduces completely unique thoughts for the player such as.

"Well, I REALLY need to replicate soon so that I can advance soon, but this cell over there is following me and might try to eat me..."

Just a thought.
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