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Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Posts: 1169
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Join date: 2010-10-01
Age: 18
Location: ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
 | | Subject: Establishing Language Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:19 pm | |
| One of the things that greatly excited me about 2005 Spore was when Will Wright mentioned that you would have to "play a close encounters game" to establish common language.
Now I don't know about you, but I'd hate it if, when encountering a Nation that does not speak the same language as you, you'd still automatically gain diplomatic relations.
I don't know how, but if we can find a way to make the player have to do some work to establish common language, I'd be thrilled. Any thoughts/ideas? |
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2creator
Newcomer
Posts: 69
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2010-10-14
Location: The interwebs
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:27 pm | |
| Well for later on in the game we could have a translation technology. Perhaps we could have a language specialist? |
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eumesmo
Regular
Posts: 297
Reputation: 6
Join date: 2010-07-09
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:07 pm | |
| yes, that would speed things up, but it's not mandatory
the further away from the origin of your language the harder it would be for you to understand the other language |
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US_of_Alaska
Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts: 1314
Reputation: 24
Join date: 2010-07-07
Age: 19
Location: Australia
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:01 am | |
| A great example for us to work on would be "The Prawns" from District Nine. The people in Johannesburg spent three years in close proximity to the aliens, and so basically learnt their language through interaction like a child does. Obviously having language analysists and linguists would speed the process at which one can learn an alien language up. Only at a very, very, very high computing research level should a universal translator be possible, and it should have some unreliability until the encountered race's language is completely understood. |
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Albalrogue
Learner
Posts: 142
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2010-09-26
Age: 19
Location: France
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:11 am | |
| | US_of_Alaska wrote: | | A great example for us to work on would be "The Prawns" from District Nine. The people in Johannesburg spent three years in close proximity to the aliens, and so basically learnt their language through interaction like a child does. Obviously having language analysists and linguists would speed the process at which one can learn an alien language up. Only at a very, very, very high computing research level should a universal translator be possible, and it should have some unreliability until the encountered race's language is completely understood. |
QFT. Ther should be some sort of missionaries that will live with the nation/race that they would want to interact with. Once they they learned how to communicate with them, they would come back and teach others. Therefore making the to nation/species interact with each other. |
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Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Posts: 1169
Reputation: 23
Join date: 2010-10-01
Age: 18
Location: ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:20 pm | |
| | Albalrogue wrote: | | US_of_Alaska wrote: | | A great example for us to work on would be "The Prawns" from District Nine. The people in Johannesburg spent three years in close proximity to the aliens, and so basically learnt their language through interaction like a child does. Obviously having language analysists and linguists would speed the process at which one can learn an alien language up. Only at a very, very, very high computing research level should a universal translator be possible, and it should have some unreliability until the encountered race's language is completely understood. |
QFT. Ther should be some sort of missionaries that will live with the nation/race that they would want to interact with. Once they they learned how to communicate with them, they would come back and teach others. Therefore making the to nation/species interact with each other. |
Double QFT
However, what I was talking about was more of making this a part of gameplay: i.e. a minigame. It seems silly, but Thrive has thusfar leaned very far to the simulation side of things, and having the player optionally speed up the proccess would be a great way to get more gameplay style gameplay in.
| eumesmo wrote: | | the further away from the origin of your language the harder it would be for you to understand the other language |
While I do agree, this is rather needless complexity, requiring us to add dynamic lingual spread is overly difficult, and would require the game to make the languages in the first place, impossible as all sound files have to induvidually recorded.
However, your suggestion may be possible for cross-species language, just uping the length of time it takes to learn/the difficulty for afforsaid minigame depending on the similarities of the involved sensors. |
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US_of_Alaska
Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts: 1314
Reputation: 24
Join date: 2010-07-07
Age: 19
Location: Australia
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:22 pm | |
| Unless if this minigame is very well done and seems realistic, i'm going to be against it. |
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Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Posts: 1169
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Join date: 2010-10-01
Age: 18
Location: ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:06 pm | |
| | US_of_Alaska wrote: | | Unless if this minigame is very well done and seems realistic, i'm going to be against it. |
I expected as much. That's why I made this thread, I'm fishiing for opinions and ideas on HOW to do it well and realisticly. |
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Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Posts: 1169
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Join date: 2010-10-01
Age: 18
Location: ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:45 am | |
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Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Posts: 1169
Reputation: 23
Join date: 2010-10-01
Age: 18
Location: ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:37 pm | |
| Alright, what we need to do here is match things up correctly. i.e. words to what they represent. Now, their are several ways to do this, let's start talking. |
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US_of_Alaska
Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts: 1314
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Join date: 2010-07-07
Age: 19
Location: Australia
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:51 pm | |
| | Tenebrarum wrote: | | Alright, what we need to do here is match things up correctly. i.e. words to what they represent. Now, their are several ways to do this, let's start talking. |
So you mean like a flashcards game? I hold up a picture of a tree and type tree, then they say "tree" and we get points towards a translation? |
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Djohaal
Learner
Posts: 144
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2010-12-03
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:01 pm | |
| For belgium's sake, no minigames. I don't want to have to go to the other city carrying digeridoos and playing some lame simon says. (you get where I'm coming from  ) Language diffusion could be possible with some tinkering. We'd need some mechanics for drift, melding and assimilation of languages, but I don't think it'd be overly complex or too heavy to do calculations wize. Perhaps it could be tied with culture? How would this impact gameplay is another business though. |
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Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Posts: 1169
Reputation: 23
Join date: 2010-10-01
Age: 18
Location: ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:07 pm | |
| | Djohaal wrote: | | For belgium's sake, no minigames. I don't want to have to go to the other city carrying digeridoos and playing some lame simon says. (you get where I'm coming from ) |
That's not the point. People have to match up these things to learn language in real life. My idea is that we can give the player something quick and entertaining to do with this that would have relavence and realism.
My main thought was identifying patterns, the central element of decoding language. |
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US_of_Alaska
Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts: 1314
Reputation: 24
Join date: 2010-07-07
Age: 19
Location: Australia
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:14 pm | |
| | Djohaal wrote: | For belgium's sake, no minigames. I don't want to have to go to the other city carrying digeridoos and playing some lame simon says. (you get where I'm coming from )
Language diffusion could be possible with some tinkering. We'd need some mechanics for drift, melding and assimilation of languages, but I don't think it'd be overly complex or too heavy to do calculations wize. Perhaps it could be tied with culture?
How would this impact gameplay is another business though.
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Rex is talking about Org Mode. How can you help your nation to learn the language when you are a single organism. And the way to do that would be to show things and say their name, interact with people from that nation, things like that. It's not really a minigame. |
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~sciocont
Overall Team Lead
Posts: 2564
Reputation: 61
Join date: 2010-07-06
| | Subject: Re: Establishing Language Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:30 pm | |
| | US_of_Alaska wrote: | | A great example for us to work on would be "The Prawns" from District Nine. The people in Johannesburg spent three years in close proximity to the aliens, and so basically learnt their language through interaction like a child does. Obviously having language analysists and linguists would speed the process at which one can learn an alien language up. Only at a very, very, very high computing research level should a universal translator be possible, and it should have some unreliability until the encountered race's language is completely understood. |
You'd have to have relations for a little while before establishing a common language, or understanding each other.
And yeah, I'm all for a "babel-fish" god tool. 
The problem with this is that all language is going to be random in the game- you really can't learn something that's random, so we really can't include the actual learning process in the game. _________________ Remember our goals: simplicity, science, and playability. Keep them in mind always. [OE]| [FAQ]|[Wiki]|[My Internet Presence]  |
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