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bill2505
Learner
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Join date: 2011-01-09
Location: Greece
 | | Subject: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:56 pm | |
| when you defeat a nation instead if destroying or occupying them you can create a puppet government .this will let you deside the government ,ask tributes but you will not be able to control the city and if they get too advanced they may rebel |
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~sciocont
Overall Team Lead
Posts: 2564
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Join date: 2010-07-06
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:35 pm | |
| | bill2505 wrote: | | when you defeat a nation instead if destroying or occupying them you can create a puppet government .this will let you deside the government ,ask tributes but you will not be able to control the city and if they get too advanced they may rebel |
Not a bad idea. This could hel you set up sattelite nations as the USSR did._________________ Remember our goals: simplicity, science, and playability. Keep them in mind always. [OE]| [FAQ]|[Wiki]|[My Internet Presence]  |
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bill2505
Learner
Posts: 117
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Join date: 2011-01-09
Location: Greece
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:56 pm | |
| | ~sciocont wrote: | | bill2505 wrote: | | when you defeat a nation instead if destroying or occupying them you can create a puppet government .this will let you deside the government ,ask tributes but you will not be able to control the city and if they get too advanced they may rebel |
Not a bad idea. This could help you set up sattelite nations as the USSR did. |
also you will be able to build military bases but will make the puppet nation unhappy
factors that could determine the relationships with the conquering nation
1 how you treat them(tax,much military pressence
2 how different is the culture
3 how different the government was before the one nation conquers the other
4 the longer they are the more easily they will rebel and less money you are going to get (corruption)
most of the city will hate( most of the time) you exept the government(if you chose the right ministers) |
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Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
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Age: 18
Location: ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:08 pm | |
| Good idea. However, don't be so hasty about the hate part. There will be dislike, but hate probably won't be a permanent thing. Best example: Rome. This is esssentially what they did, eventually absorbing the nation into the empire. People did not permanently hate them.
Rule number one of psychology(Don't you say that "that's just Earth psychology!" this would make no sense whatever race you are.): Business as usual never illicits strong reactions. |
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~sciocont
Overall Team Lead
Posts: 2564
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Join date: 2010-07-06
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:21 pm | |
| We can't have anything one-sided. We need to represent "good" and "bad" outcomes of all actions. _________________ Remember our goals: simplicity, science, and playability. Keep them in mind always. [OE]| [FAQ]|[Wiki]|[My Internet Presence] |
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Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
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Location: ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:28 pm | |
| | ~sciocont wrote: | | We can't have anything one-sided. We need to represent "good" and "bad" outcomes of all actions. |
Ehh... I don't think we need to say that. It's misleading. We need to be realistic. Some actions have only good outcomes(Humility in diplomacy), some only bad(Racism), but the vast majority are grey. |
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bill2505
Learner
Posts: 117
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Join date: 2011-01-09
Location: Greece
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:30 pm | |
| | Tenebrarum wrote: | Good idea. However, don't be so hasty about the hate part. There will be dislike, but hate probably won't be a permanent thing. Best example: Rome. This is esssentially what they did, eventually absorbing the nation into the empire. People did not permanently hate them.
Rule number one of psychology(Don't you say that "that's just Earth psychology!" this would make no sense whatever race you are.): Business as usual never illicits strong reactions. |
you are wrong here . how much they will like you or hate you will be determined by you action and 2-3 factors
if america invades north korea they will never be accepted happily at least . about Rome .who said that nations happily accepted the romans. as someone said because rome wants to rule the word doesnt follow that everyone will want to be their slaves .only after a long time they happily accepted the roman rule and not all . in the end only the greeks and the italians were totaly loyal to the empire . there where other factor that determined this(military might of the empire,some roman territories were conquered or rebelled )
in order to absorb another nation in my opinion(absorb not conquer) some of this thing must be done
1first you must have open society and not closed(everyone is citizen of the nation or empire)
2you must have imperial goverment
3 not extremely different culture and goverment
when the city rebels the the govermenor if he id a loyal (pup)pet governor he will side with you or he will help the rebels
even with these only after a large amount of time they may be absorbed in your nation and this is not for sure
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Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
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| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:44 pm | |
| Why would you have to be an Empire? |
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Darkgamma
Learner
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Location: Serbia (not that you need know where it is)
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:49 pm | |
| | Tenebrarum wrote: | | Why would you have to be an Empire? |
QFT
The system works just as well with other governments, except tthose that heavily enslave.
Example: Tatars in Russia. They're happy now.
Example 2: Sámi in the Nordic Lands + Russian north. They have freedom and are relatively happy. Haven't seen many trying to get 100% independence. |
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bill2505
Learner
Posts: 117
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Join date: 2011-01-09
Location: Greece
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:02 pm | |
| | Darkgamma wrote: | | Tenebrarum wrote: | | Why would you have to be an Empire? |
QFT
The system works just as well with other governments, except tthose that heavily enslave.
Example: Tatars in Russia. They're happy now.
Example 2: Sámi in the Nordic Lands + Russian north. They have freedom and are relatively happy. Haven't seen many trying to get 100% independence. |
true in every goverment you can absorb enemy nation but in democratic goverment its harder than imperial.goverment is not only an option for absorbing a new nation. if you have democracy but you have an open borders and equality policy then its a bit different. tatars in rusia can vote so they are Russian citizens so we dont say something different
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Mysterious_Calligrapher
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| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:53 pm | |
| | bill2505 wrote: | you are wrong here . how much they will like you or hate you will be determined by you action and 2-3 factors
if america invades north korea they will never be accepted happily at least . about Rome .who said that nations happily accepted the romans. |
No one said they Paraded in the streets to welcome the romans. (That was for Sargon of Akkad, if my sophomore world history does not fail me....)
You're going to have mixed reactions in any invasion, and they will change over time.
A nation who started out happy that you've come and displaced their horrible government could get ticked if you stay too long or try to change them too much.
You could get pretty darn used to the romans. Much of the mediterranean coastline did. Except for Carthage - they salted them out of existence instead. Carthage most definitely did not roll out the welcome mat for them.
Puppet governments could be instrumental in preventing backlash. Business as usual would prevent the large majority of the population from worrying their pixelated little cerebellums about who was actually in charge.
You also need to take the two nations' previous relationships into account. If they hated you before you invaded, they're certainly not going to welcome you with open arms.
Basic rules: the more normal life is for the conquered population, the faster they will get "used" to you.
the more you change, the more of a mixed reaction you have. Happiness could go up or down. Remove something that made them unhappy = increased happiness. Change what made them happy = decreased happiness. Change something that they didn't much care about = irritation. |
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~sciocont
Overall Team Lead
Posts: 2564
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Join date: 2010-07-06
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:20 pm | |
| | Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote: | Basic rules: the more normal life is for the conquered population, the faster they will get "used" to you.
the more you change, the more of a mixed reaction you have. Happiness could go up or down. Remove something that made them unhappy = increased happiness. Change what made them happy = decreased happiness. Change something that they didn't much care about = irritation. |
Thank you. Really people, it's that simple. In general, populations don't like change that they didn't create. Happy people are more conservative by nature, because they don't want things to change that might cause them to be unhappy._________________ Remember our goals: simplicity, science, and playability. Keep them in mind always. [OE]| [FAQ]|[Wiki]|[My Internet Presence] |
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bill2505
Learner
Posts: 117
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Join date: 2011-01-09
Location: Greece
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:53 am | |
| | Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote: | | bill2505 wrote: | you are wrong here . how much they will like you or hate you will be determined by you action and 2-3 factors
if america invades north korea they will never be accepted happily at least . about Rome .who said that nations happily accepted the romans. |
No one said they Paraded in the streets to welcome the romans. (That was for Sargon of Akkad, if my sophomore world history does not fail me....)
You're going to have mixed reactions in any invasion, and they will change over time.
A nation who started out happy that you've come and displaced their horrible government could get ticked if you stay too long or try to change them too much.
You could get pretty darn used to the romans. Much of the mediterranean coastline did. Except for Carthage - they salted them out of existence instead. Carthage most definitely did not roll out the welcome mat for them.
Puppet governments could be instrumental in preventing backlash. Business as usual would prevent the large majority of the population from worrying their pixelated little cerebellums about who was actually in charge.
You also need to take the two nations' previous relationships into account. If they hated you before you invaded, they're certainly not going to welcome you with open arms.
Basic rules: the more normal life is for the conquered population, the faster they will get "used" to you.
the more you change, the more of a mixed reaction you have. Happiness could go up or down. Remove something that made them unhappy = increased happiness. Change what made them happy = decreased happiness. Change something that they didn't much care about = irritation. |
we dont say something diffetent in the end |
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Commander Keen
Industrial Team Lead
Posts: 1120
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Location: Czech Republic (not that anyone would know where it is...)
| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:39 am | |
| | Quote: | Basic rules: the more normal life is for the conquered population, the faster they will get "used" to you.
the more you change, the more of a mixed reaction you have. Happiness could go up or down. Remove something that made them unhappy = increased happiness. Change what made them happy = decreased happiness. Change something that they didn't much care about = irritation. |
Quoting For Truth.
I even live in an example of this, the Czech Republic. Communists were ruling there for 50 years, until the Velvet Revolution happened and the country changed from eastern socialistic to western capital in just a few weeks. But the communists were there for half a century, and now about people 20% of the population want them back, simply because they grown up under the socialistic rule and have nostalgia for the old times when "everything was way cheaper and everyone had a work". |
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Mysterious_Calligrapher
Biome Team Lead
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| | Subject: Re: pupet goverments Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:50 pm | |
| Bill, mine was more clarification than disagreement. |
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