I'm afraid this forum doesn't quite understand what it means to make a game. It's been what, 3.5 years? I don't care. The game doesn't exist, and probably never will.

Anyway, my problem is thus: Everyone and their dog submits ideas. Normally this isn't a problem, but Thrive is quite a unique case. I've made this point before, (and it was quickly ignored) but this forum has it completely backwards. This entire time, you've honestly expected programmers to come magically create the game for you.

It would be a completely different story if, say, the game was started by a programmer, demonstrated by a programmer, and then led, by a programmer. They would have made a small prototype, received interest, and if all went well, a community would have been born. However, if started by a programmer, certainly he or she would have never intended to simulate the entire Belgiuming universe. As you can see, thrive has a unique dilemma. The community has been created out of thin air, based on "Wouldn't it be cool if there were a game where..."

Moving back to idea submissions, remembering that the game doesn't exist and that the game roughly covers the entire Belgiuming universe, we see that any and every idea can and will be accepted. Simulating the universe is a catch-all. ANYTHING ANYONE submits is valid. Since there is no game, there's nobody to say no. Instead, there's a wiki, and the idea will be added.

Such is the problem of thrive. Thrive is one massive wad of ideas, stripped from all the best games we've all played. Org mode! Civ mode! God mode! Editors! Belgiuming editors! Cell stage! Creature stage! Civ stage! (But don't compare us to spore!) Planets! Aliens! Religions! Politics! Epic GUI! This is what makes people have zero confidence. This is what drives your precious programmers away. It's not because you have all bark and no bite, it's because you have so much Belgium bark.

What was my solution? Learn to program. Those who really wanted to make the game, should make it. But that didn't work. Nobody wanted to put so much effort into something that was so hard to understand. I've done my best to help other people understand, but every time I bring up pseudorandom numbers, people freak out. As if discussing the actual implementation of an idea is completely out of question.

Take for example, procedural generation. The people of this forum LOVE this term. "Oh, that will be procedurally generated, but we'll have an editor for it, don't worry." "The textures will be procedurally generated" "The planets will be procedurally generated" If there isn't a better way to push things off onto the programmers, I don't know what is. Nobody, not once, has EVER discussed just how exactly the textures for leaves on plants will be generated. Why? Because it's just more complicated than they'd ever like to know. Not to mention, making procedurally generated textures on plants would be outright a pain in the Belgium.

Lately, you may have seen my second solution. Divide those who can program, from those who cant. Split the forum for serious development. Unfortunately, my fears held true. I'm the only one. Here I am, writing dozens of lines of c++ for an angry crowd of 12 year-olds who just got through rage quitting spore. A massive amount of ideas submitted over the course of 3.5 years, and I'm supposed to implement them all, oh yeah --with great graphics. Does anyone else see what's wrong with this?

Yes, they've been filtered. Yes, the most ridiculous are turned down left and right. I get it. The problem still remains, however. Those who are checking the ideas, still don't know how to program. I could check the consistency of the ideas, but I would reject every single one. Hell, I don't even agree with half of the "current concept." Making all of these "ideas" a reality is beyond insane.

There you have it. I don't agree with the planned course of the game, and I'm unwilling to help people's ideas become implemented. A) Because it's all me, and B) Because it's all me. This brings me to question why I'm still here, which I cannot answer. Therefore, I'm done.

My advice? Change or die. Sure, you can keep going like I don't matter. "Hold strong" to the current course of the game. After all, it's scientific!

I'm sure you'll find great results that way.

tl;dr: roadkillguy is batshit insane and doesn't wanna program no more

This is all completely true. I've got too much on my plate to learn program up to the level needed, so I work on keeping the rest of this filtered for the programmers. I still probably don't do nearly enough. I'm making an attempt to change these forums into a more dichotomous setting, where the programmers and hard developers can shop for decent ideas amongst the main forums, and discuss specifics in hard development. This still isn't enough.
If we want to get anything done, we need to hit the books and really evaluate the feasibility of everything: start discussing real processes, functions, and implications of what we have, and above all do the math, the programming, and the thinking.

In defense of Thrive, however, we haven't had the luxury of forethought. If I'd started this, programmers would have been the only people involved. I would have learned to program, and we might have had something. It wasn't started by anyone here, and by the time anyone here got to it, it was already being fed by hype from people who didn't know any better. I think it's our job at this point to bring down the hype, get down to earth, and start simple. The colorful rings of the cell stage are enough to start with. They don't need to be beautiful, they need to demonstrate evolution. If we can do that, I'll be happy, and we'll release.

Speaking of programming, where can I find the version of C++ you are using

Hello Roadkillguy, I'm Grep. Don't remember if we've met, I myself had given up on thrive for a while. I see what you mean when you say this game is not going to happen the way we want it. While I do not work in games, programming, or pretty much anything like that, I agree this is way out of proportion. There should be more programmers than brainstormers, but programming isn't that popular of a hobby. Now I would learn to program, but honestly I doubt this game getting off the ground anyway. Also, I'm lazy

To be totally honest, I'm doing this because I like it, no because I think it will get done. I really enjoy directing this, even though I know it's unlikely we'll produce much. that doesn't matter to me. I like the challenges that it poses and the things that I learn while solving them.

I've been trying to learn how to code for a while. It largely hasn't ended well, likely do to my having a learning disability. It's minor, but it makes working with numbers and certain logic patterns more difficult than it should be.

I want to help you in any way I can, and I've said on multiple occasions that you should have absolute control over the greenlighting of ideas, seeing as you'll be the one to have to implement them.

This is largely why I take such long breaks from this project. I work for a while, and then realize how hopeless it is. Then, I get curious, check back up, marvel at the progress and hope, and repeat the process over again.

Now, you mentioned graphics. I've been wondering if we might want to revert to the traditional cube creatures almost all evo-sims use. I certainly don't want to, but it would give us a much simpler base and would make a number of things easier to figure out even into my sphere of influence.

As it stands, all I can say is that I will keep trying to learn C++, and I will keep looking up to you. Even if you do decide you want to leave us, I can't imagine someone who could have helped us more. Besides Gabe Newell. Thank you. Gratsiam valde ago tibi, ad praecula praeculorum.

Maybe ads do have a use.

This may seem off topic, but if we release ads saying that C++ programmers are wanted for this, we might be able to get some more programmers to help with thrive. Also, a quick google search turned up a rather large forum devoted to programming. I'm not a member there, but I think we should be able to get some programmers with us if we let them know of our existence.
http://www.programmingforums.org/ I have no idea what the website is like, though.
EDIT: Also, with what he said, does that mean that roadkillguy is leaving? If so, I think we are deeply screwed...

i'd help out but i'm to busy to put my C++ experience to use here. i suggest to everyone using the Unreal Development Kit, it is an engine made for shooters but quite some time ago i remember making some spore inspired game on it. It was pretty simple, basic, and hideous, but it worked, and that's what matters. Also, UDK isn't as scary as straight up c++, more drag and droppish. However for the BEST results and getting together your own engine, you'll need to learn c++, which can very easily be done by watching the "Absolute n00b spoonfeed" c++ tutorial series on youtube. If you can't understand that series, then, well, you're pretty much Belgiumed in terms of getting anywhere. Finally, the whole procedural generation thing is pure bull poop, tileable, seamless textures and 3d models really should suffice until progress is actually made. Then you could focus on the more advanced doohickies and gimmicks. As for Roadkill, that was a nice repository, too bad it's probably not going to be finished.

When do you think we should reveal ourselves to that coding forum?
It sounds like a good idea, although I do see what you mean.
Maybe Sciocont could introduce them to us, because quite frankly, I think he would be the best person to do that job.
And after all, he kinda is the boss around here, that is unless admin suddenly appeared on here, but I highly doubt he'll ever come back.
So yeah.

All ADMIN does is monitor the forum. I don't think he's made any big contributions to Thrive. He checks up on here every so often to make sure that all of the rules are being obeyed.

sorry if this post is irrelevant, but then who is the true boss around here?